The Doctor's Wife

[promethia_tenk]

I really, really didn't like the big reveal in the last episode at first, but I'm gradually coming around by realizing it's a lot more complex and interesting than it seems on the surface.  Then I realized this:

I think it very possible that the TARDIS made River so that the Doctor wouldn't be alone.  Or, at the very least, that she stacked the deck [ETA: much discussion of the creepiness of this in the comments, with meta-y implications]:



From "The Doctor's Wife" we learn:

1) The TARDIS exists in all of time and space and can see futures.
2) She stole him.
3) She always takes him where he needs to go (like, say, Amy's house).
4) She can't talk with him all the time, but she loves him.
5) She seemed very preoccupied with River right before she died--asking for water and repeating the line about the forrest.

In 6x07 we learn exposure to the time vortex during conception causes pseudo Time Lord-y-ness!  Somehow the idea that the TARDIS rigged things makes me more willing to accept the timehead explanation, which I found pretty lame at first . . .

And then there's the stuff that's more just suggestive:

1) That very ambiguous episode title: "The Doctor's Wife."

2) The echoed "hello" greetings with both the TARDIS and River.

3) All the TARDISes were dead, but together they built a new TARDIS--"It's not impossible as long as we're alive."  All the Time Lords were dead, so she built him a new Time Lord?

4) Of course the TARDIS routes calls to her and keeps her from exploding.

5) "She's the TARDIS, and she's a woman!"  "Did you wish really hard?"

6) It's all rather Adam's rib, which I find a bit :-\  But then on the other hand, that is rather delightfully meta since, as a character of course, River was written for the Doctor, so I think I prefer that the text acknowledge that?  Also River has an apple on the shelf in her cell in Stormcage.  Or she did last season--it seems to be missing now, which the obsessive part of my brain really wants to mean something.

 

Now I'm just trying to decide if this was a wholly unselfish move on the TARDIS's part, or if she wants timebabies who could pilot her after he's dead . . .

ETA: Been stuck on this vid of late, and since it's gorgeous and oh so relevant (Doctor/TARDIS), might as well do a pimp: Suzanne, by such_heights .

Also been having to remind myself that, as incongruous as the "River is Amy and Rory's daughter" reveal seemed, the way Moff's written it, it's actually all tied up in all the themes and ideas I was thinking about, oooh, last July, and had since gotten bored of and moved on from.  *smacks head to dislodge thoughts*

 

Comments

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

It does have some interesting possibilities if it's true. But I feel like it would take away from her agency a bit to be made as a present for him. And I guess it would play into his narcissism in a kind of "Pygmalion and Galatea" sort of way, which could be interesting or disturbing. Or both.

Also, the fact that the Doctor seems to meet EVERYONE nowadays when they are "impressionable young girls" is starting to get not just repetitive but borderline creepy. Like, I know the Doctor is already basically an intergalactic (mostly benevolent) stranger with candy, but like cinderbella333 said, it kind of reeks of grooming.

But then, Moffat seems to be deconstructing the idea of the Doctor being a hero, so maybe this all plays into it.

[promethia_tenk]

Ooof, sorry, this turned into a real ramble:

I think she's probably the culmination and defining argument on a lot of issues Moff's been teasing. Like, for example, Rory was made, without his consent, into a plastic replica with the knowledge of a Roman and forced to shoot Amy (as part of a trap for the Doctor, because someone was afraid of him). And that is seriously creepy if you really think about it and certainly undermines his agency. But what ends up mattering about that? His choices, his actions in response to it, his determination to be Rory and to be human and to help Amy are what make him and that whole experience of overcoming that makes him stronger and more than he was. So River will be the product of all these conflicting forces, possibly all trying to control her, but I'm certain what's going to end up mattering is her own choices about it all.

And I'll admit that when she gave that "young, impressionable girl" line back in TIA, I was really annoyed and worried Moff would just be returning once again to his same trope, but finding out that it's not just going to be that she met him very young but that she was so thoroughly formed by him, I have to figure that Moff means to push that issue of the influence the Doctor has over these young people to a head and to really attack it and deconstruct it in that way. He has been building up the critique around it each time he returns to the trope--it's mostly suggested with Reinette, but with Amy we're definitely meant to be thinking that his influence may be malignant, and River certainly seems to realize it based on her "oh, Doctor, why do I let you out?" when she found all Amy's dolls and such.

I guess what I'm saying is that I was worried about River's agency and freedom and independence relative to the Doctor before. Really, really worried. But for the fact that Moff has created this set-up that is so blatantly a challenge to her whole identity and autonomy and agency, that tells me he means for us to be worried and that he's doing it in order to address those very issues and resolve them.

Or maybe I'm being naive. I don't think so, though.

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

I like your idea about Rory. The theme of making the right, even heroic choices despite your limits and of not letting other people define your existence is really interesting and powerful. If that's what Moffat does with River, I think I'd be happy with it. Even the Doctor has to deal with his past and the impossible choices that were forced on him. As do we all. Whether she was intentionally altered by the TARDIS, programmed by the Silence, or whatever happened to her, that would be an interesting path to go down.

Yeah, the whole impressionable girl thing is cropping up so much I think it has to be leading up to something. I mean, it even happened to Lorna Bucket, who is a minor one-shot character.

I hope you're right. I feel like Moffat is trying to plant leads for so many things, and right now it just feels irritating to me to have so many loose ends. Maybe next half-season there'll be some closure that makes them all worth it.

[promethia_tenk]

Yeah, the whole impressionable girl thing is cropping up so much I think it has to be leading up to something. I mean, it even happened to Lorna Bucket, who is a minor one-shot character.
Oh, yes, good point! I'd forgotten about that. For that to come up so clearly in the same episode we find out who River is . . . I have to feel like that's intentional.

I feel like Moffat is trying to plant leads for so many things, and right now it just feels irritating to me to have so many loose ends.
*nods* It's so much to try to account for, it does get irritating. And definitely Moff plays a dangerous game--if he drops any of the threads the end result could be really disturbing, I think. But so far I feel like he's earned the benefit of the doubt from me, so we'll see . . .

[owlboy]

I love Lorna. As short as her story is.... there's so much in it and it's so tragic. She basically grew up like Amy, obsessing over the Doctor, but she didn't get any fairy tale. She DIED. -FOR- the Doctor, who didn't even REMEMBER her. Christ, that's awful. The Doctor fucks up people's lives even when he doesn't -know- them.

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

I'm wondering if he hasn't actually met her yet, because of timelines being weird. If that's the case, it would explain why he doesn't remember her, and it would give her the chance to be in another episode, which I would love. *wishes really hard*

[promethia_tenk]

I didn't catch that particular nuance til the second time through, but when I did it hit like a ton of bricks. I really do hope that it's not a matter of timey wimey and he'll "meet" her later, because the wrenching simplicity of that moment is perfect.

[owlboy]

IAWTC.

Lornaaa ;_;

[elisi]

Yeah, the whole impressionable girl thing is cropping up so much I think it has to be leading up to something. I mean, it even happened to Lorna Bucket, who is a minor one-shot character.
When I first watched it I was distracted by Lorna, because I thought she was River. Looking at her now, then oh. She was a little girl who joined the army to meet the Doctor. And died because of it. And going right back to Reinette, then she died too, waiting... There is some dark, dark stuff there.

I like your idea about Rory. The theme of making the right, even heroic choices despite your limits and of not letting other people define your existence is really interesting and powerful.
This whole discussion reminded me very forcefully of Angel... (Promethia: Shut up!) S4 of Angel is all about free will and choices, and towards the end of the season it's revealed that everything in the whole show (more or less) has been leading up to where they are now (it's a gorgeously done retcon!), and the characters start to question if they have any agency at all and then Gunn has this brilliant speech (Fred is a girl, btw):

FRED: Will it make a difference? We really are just pieces being moved around a board.

GUNN: Then we'll kick it over and start a new game. Look, monochrome can yap all he wants about no-name's cosmic plan, but here's a little something I picked up rubbing mojos these past couple of years. The final score can't be rigged. I don't care how many players you grease, that last shot always comes up a question mark. But here's the thing—you never know when you're taking it. It could be when you're duking it out with the Legion of Doom, or just crossing the street deciding where to have brunch. So you just treat it all like it was up to you—the world in the balance—'cause you never know when it is.

FRED: You been practicing that?

GUNN: (smiles) Little bit. (chuckles)

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

Mm, I've never seen any of Angel, but I have seen Firefly, which also deals a lot (but less explicitly, perhaps) with ideas of free will and whether you can overcome your past or what you've been molded to be. And I love Firefly. Free will one of my favorite things to explore.

[promethia_tenk]

Mmmmph mmm mmmr mm m mmmmummpl.

*nods*

[promethia_tenk]

And I guess it would play into his narcissism in a kind of "Pygmalion and Galatea" sort of way, which could be interesting or disturbing. Or both.
OOo, meant to say that I'd be very surprised if anybody ever really said that the TARDIS did this--it seems like the sort of thing that has to stay in suggestion and possibility or exist in that sort of quantum state that a lot of TARDIS-related stuff does: did she steal him or did he steal her?