promethia_tenk (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
promethia_tenk) wrote2018-11-18 05:02 pm
promethia_tenk) wrote2018-11-18 05:02 pm
Entry tags:
Kerblam!
I think this might be my favorite plot of the whole season so far?
In that it gave a nuanced sci-fi look into a very real looming social crisis. I was expecting a scathing take-down of Amazon's warehouse practices, which I would have been totally fine with and would have been in keeping with the themes of the season, but instead it went deeper to the issue of what happens when the robots take all of our jobs. Because Amazon and the like are just a prequel, a warm-up to what's going to happen.
If you've been on the internet in the last five years and somehow have never seen 'Humans Need Not Apply,' now would be an excellent time to do that:
Actually, I think the most chilling idea of the whole episode is that the human response to robots taking over the jobs that they are better suited to doing (read: most if not all of them) would be some kind of human affirmative action program for employment. Because fighting for the rights of humans to continue serving as inferiorly-performing and badly treated cogs in the system is exactly the kind of unimaginative, reactionary response that we would come up with as a society. I suppose we're meant to take it as read that the power and class structure of this world was so crippling that a society in which nobody actually needs to work was still bent to serve the few and neglect the many. Ok, admittedly that an extremely real possibility. But I'd have liked a line or two about how fifty years ago everybody thought universal basic income would be the solution and then it all went even more wrong. Or something the like. Tell me there are other people out there coming up with better solutions here, even if they can't get them enacted. I do know that Human Resource Lady's line at the end that they are going to make the company 50% human-powered came over more than a little tone deaf. Was she watching the rest of the episode? Am I meant to be left with this crushing sense that nothing has been solved? (Actually, the answer to that is probably yes, isn't it?)
I did like the Doctor's assertion that systems aren't good or evil, only our responses to them. Because, look, humans not having to do menial jobs (or any jobs) should be a good thing, if we approach it correctly. But we're currently doing absolutely nothing to try to make that the case.
It's rare for Doctor Who to really engage me on this level, but I liked it. I'll admit this issue is a bit of a personal fascination of mine.
Otherwise, then, the character stuff continues to be lacking, but weaponized bubble wrap is probably the most ingenious Doctor Who menace of all time.
In that it gave a nuanced sci-fi look into a very real looming social crisis. I was expecting a scathing take-down of Amazon's warehouse practices, which I would have been totally fine with and would have been in keeping with the themes of the season, but instead it went deeper to the issue of what happens when the robots take all of our jobs. Because Amazon and the like are just a prequel, a warm-up to what's going to happen.
If you've been on the internet in the last five years and somehow have never seen 'Humans Need Not Apply,' now would be an excellent time to do that:
Actually, I think the most chilling idea of the whole episode is that the human response to robots taking over the jobs that they are better suited to doing (read: most if not all of them) would be some kind of human affirmative action program for employment. Because fighting for the rights of humans to continue serving as inferiorly-performing and badly treated cogs in the system is exactly the kind of unimaginative, reactionary response that we would come up with as a society. I suppose we're meant to take it as read that the power and class structure of this world was so crippling that a society in which nobody actually needs to work was still bent to serve the few and neglect the many. Ok, admittedly that an extremely real possibility. But I'd have liked a line or two about how fifty years ago everybody thought universal basic income would be the solution and then it all went even more wrong. Or something the like. Tell me there are other people out there coming up with better solutions here, even if they can't get them enacted. I do know that Human Resource Lady's line at the end that they are going to make the company 50% human-powered came over more than a little tone deaf. Was she watching the rest of the episode? Am I meant to be left with this crushing sense that nothing has been solved? (Actually, the answer to that is probably yes, isn't it?)
I did like the Doctor's assertion that systems aren't good or evil, only our responses to them. Because, look, humans not having to do menial jobs (or any jobs) should be a good thing, if we approach it correctly. But we're currently doing absolutely nothing to try to make that the case.
It's rare for Doctor Who to really engage me on this level, but I liked it. I'll admit this issue is a bit of a personal fascination of mine.
Otherwise, then, the character stuff continues to be lacking, but weaponized bubble wrap is probably the most ingenious Doctor Who menace of all time.
no subject
I was hoping for/expecting ‘Treat Workers Like People’. Instead I got ‘Everyone Deserves a McJob’.
Because the Luddite’s POV was confirmed by the narrative. He may have been wanting to commit mass murder, but his point was accepted as valid and the Kerblam! bosses were implementing changes in direct response to what he said.
So hurrah for a future where more people can get tagged at work, have a boss breathe down their neck and see their family twice a year!
As dystopias go, it’s not far off the Bad Wolf world of year 200,000 when the human race is just watching TV and being harvested for Dalek spare parts. In contrast I suppose a McJob looks attractive.
As a warning I guess it works well. As a narrative it’s as depressing to me as ‘Rosa’ was to El Sandifer.
☹
no subject
I'm just kinda impressed because Doctor Who doing social issues hardly ever does a thing for me. At all. I'm not offended by it. Like, you need a plot, sure make it about the exploitation of workers is bad or whatever, that's a good message to have. But I almost always find the way Doctor Who handles these things really pat and it doesn't end up being either emotionally cathartic or thought-provoking. I prefer my social issues in messy, Battlestar Galactica shaped forms or similar. But this actually made me think. Now, the more I think about it the more I think they flubbed the landing in some critical way. But that's thinking about the issues nonetheless, and that's basically unprecedented for me in the world of Doctor Who.
Not that I'm gonna run out and rewatch it, mind. It wasn't that good.
no subject
I am v happy that it worked for you, but the whole 'There are no jobs' thing was... well, presumably only applicable to unskilled labour. I can't see a society not needing, say, lawyers and doctors and artists and engineers and all that jazz.
So all the episode says is that poor, under-educated people are forever trapped in crappy jobs. But hey, they should be grateful for them, because a robot might take it! Go capitalism!
Also, and this was something I thought of and then forgot, the Assessing Machine (that picked up the Doctor's two hearts) was also supposed to pick up on mental ability...
And it assigned the two most highly educated/intelligent people (Charlie & the Doctor) to Maintenance. I think there is something very wrong with that machine. (I was fully expecting Graham to be whisked off to Strategic Planning or something after the Doctor swapped places, but no.)
This episode was aggravating.
no subject
I wasn't really able to make it through the post. IDK, this is my fundamental problem with the Doctor Who morality play approach to social issues. Either it gets it right and it's all very obvious and unprovoking of any critical thought and everybody pats themselves on the back for having right opinions and watching a show that also has right opinions, OR something goes wrong and suddenly everybody is yelling and it just makes me very tired and not wanting to deal with fandom at all. (Also, ugh, the episode The Sunmakers that somebody is complaining about in that post is the one I'm on right now in watching Four. Dammit, that was my happy place! Not that it would have been a favorite episode anyway, but I'd have ignored it more readily.)
I am v happy that it worked for you, but the whole 'There are no jobs' thing was... well, presumably only applicable to unskilled labour. I can't see a society not needing, say, lawyers and doctors and artists and engineers and all that jazz.
Well, this is exactly the point of Humans Need Not Apply--that the areas we think are impervious to automation are almost certainly automatable, that this is a problem that is gong to face all of us, and it's not just an issue of training people who used to do manual labor up to be able to do more white-collar-style jobs that we will magically find for them . . . somewhere. Not that the episode explicitly suggests that doctors and musicians have been replaced as well, but as soon as they brought in the idea that there are laws saying humans have to be given 10% of even the jobs that are obviously more suited to robots it just tells me that that's exactly the kind of society they're facing. Mind you, even replacing just the jobs that are obviously suited to robots with robots is still a majority of the workforce. We don't have to talk about replacing doctors and lawyers before you throw all of society into crisis.
Possibly I'm just reading across the episode, but it's definitely ideas the episode is invoking.
And it assigned the two most highly educated/intelligent people (Charlie & the Doctor) to Maintenance. I think there is something very wrong with that machine. (I was fully expecting Graham to be whisked off to Strategic Planning or something after the Doctor swapped places, but no.)
I think someone pointed out in Nos' post that the system put the Doctor in maintenance so she'd find Charlie. If the Doctor hadn't swapped placed with Graham the episode would have been done in five minutes. Not sure why it put Charlie in maintenance, but in the Doctor's case it's rather clever.
no subject
My initial reaction to this one was mostly positive - I actually felt it had some of the strongest character stuff this season, in that all our Team Tardis actually got something to *do*. Not that I mind them being mostly passive witnesses to events once in a while, but I do feel like there's been a LOT of that this season, and combined with the fact there are so many of them, I've struggled more than usual to get a handle on people's personalities. Yas, in particular, I feel has been shortchanged and relegated to the background more than necessary - even in last week's mostly amazing ep, which was actually ABOUT her family. So I really enjoyed seeing her and Ryan being more proactive in this ep - it felt like DW as I am familiar with it, and that left me feeling happy when it was over.
I also loved the little continuity nods (the fez bit was GLORIOUS, as was the Unicorn & the Wasp mention), I enjoyed the Doctor getting to show some righteous anger, and then asking if it was a bit too bombastic (lol), I loved her hiding in a wall cabinet, bonding with Twirly, and her lovely face at the end when Yas asked to go and see Dan's daughter. I really enjoyed that the episode's plot was a bit more twisty than previous eps this season - it did have the same ultimate reveal that several eps this season have had (what you thought was the monster was not the monster!) but I really didn't see this one coming. And I liked that it did continue to examine social issues in the way this season has been very clear about doing.
BUT. I do super agree with Elisi that the ending was really off. It was made repeatedly clear during the ep that these jobs are NOT something humans should necessarily aspire to (Ryan's experiences, the kind of broken way Kira said 'work gives us purpose!' etc) and yet that was never questioned or examined by the Doctor. I was also expecting an ending along the lines of 'Introduction of Galactic Basic Income!' or 'Treat Workers Like People!' and it just...didn't happen. Not necessarily an ending where we SAW that being implemented, because I get that this is not where this season is going, but perhaps the Doctor doing or saying something to nudge things in the right direction. Like, I don't really have much hope that her 'treat people with respect' speech to the Manager Dude is really going to impact very much.
I guess this ties in with Elisi's recent meta about how Thirteen is now very much going for winning the little battles rather than the whole war - she dropped in, she helped out in a small way, and now she's off again without attempting to change the course of the whole society. But it's taking some getting used to.
It would be interesting, I think, to do a comparison of all the New Who Future-Human-Dystopia eps, to see what they are saying and how the Doctor reacts to them in their different regenerations. Elisi mentioned Bad Wolf, and this ep actually reminded ME a lot of The Long Game (poss because I've watched it recently) - which, as we know, the Doctor dramatically intervened in, thereby helping to *cause* the later Bad Wolf situation. But there's also things like New Earth / Gridlock and The Beast Below and other eps where we see humans, in space, in the future, embedded in their society and what they have made of their worlds, and how the Doctor reacts to the systemic injustices.
ANYWAY, that was a lot of rambling, sorry! I feel like I haven't done this at you both in a long time. Thank you for sharing your thoughts which made me have thoughts! <3
no subject
I will try to do a proper reply at some point, but tonight is my eldest daughter's birthday and tomorrow we are going to watch a performance that my middle daughter is in, so... maybe Wednesday?
The episode had many good qualities, but the ending made me feel like the icon.
no subject
And yes that is an extremely relevant icon to this ending. It’s just so weird?! How did it make it to screen without someone saying ‘er...guys, about that last five minutes...’ I wonder what the author *thought* he was saying?! This reminds me a bit of In The Forest Of The Night, which was also a lovely ep with some great moments and potentially positive messages (about climate change, about being open to possibility, etc)...all undercut by some really gross anti-meds messaging in the last few minutes.
no subject
Missed you too!
<3 I hope your daughter’s birthday was lovely :)
Yes it was very nice and All The Family came so we had Many Children running around and were very grateful when they left...
...all undercut by some really gross anti-meds messaging in the last few minutes.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the angrier I am. On the plus side, Sleep No More is no longer the worst episode, so all hail Mark Gatiss.
no subject
Also that is a great review you’ve linked to in your new post.
(Hi Promethia, sorry for hijacking your post!)
no subject
Yes, that's how I feel about it too! But no more! There are worse crimes than dullness.
Also that is a great review you’ve linked to in your new post.
That blog is a treasure trove!!!
And Promethia won't mind. I even have an icon.
no subject
Blather all you want it's all good <3
no subject
Hello, welcome, please hijack as much as you want!
My initial reaction to this one was mostly positive - I actually felt it had some of the strongest character stuff this season, in that all our Team Tardis actually got something to *do*.
Just doing a lot of nodding along to this paragraph. I think ultimately the thing I'm struggling with the most this season is not feeling particularly connected to or interested in any of the characters. But this one at least made me feel like I was having a good time with the characters?
I also loved the little continuity nods (the fez bit was GLORIOUS, as was the Unicorn & the Wasp mention), I enjoyed the Doctor getting to show some righteous anger, and then asking if it was a bit too bombastic (lol), I loved her hiding in a wall cabinet, bonding with Twirly, and her lovely face at the end when Yas asked to go and see Dan's daughter.
*more nods* I so want to love her, but . . .
I really enjoyed that the episode's plot was a bit more twisty than previous eps this season
There were a few glorious, exhilarating minutes there of feeling swept along through twists I was only just keeping up with. My kingdom for more of that.
BUT. I do super agree with Elisi that the ending was really off.
Yeah, I don't disagree with people on that front. Like, I see where everybody is coming from. I just I'm just more willing to ignore it because I thought the rest of the episode did plenty of thought-provoking stuff. I've never really been here to be handed lessons like 'treating people like machines is bad, mmmmkay?' on a plate. I'd prefer if they'd get the messages right but . . . My capacity for sustained moral outrage is like three minutes long; I'm not expending it on a television episode.
Not necessarily an ending where we SAW that being implemented, because I get that this is not where this season is going, but perhaps the Doctor doing or saying something to nudge things in the right direction.
They kind of ended The Almost People/The Rebel Flesh like this: dropping the survivors off at corporate to whistle-blow. I was totally expecting a similar ending here. (Coincidentally another episode that I liked waaaaaaay more than fandom at large, and the last episode I can remember like this were I was actually interested in the plot for its own sake. I thought that one was fascinating.)
Like, I don't really have much hope that her 'treat people with respect' speech to the Manager Dude is really going to impact very much.
I think for me my read on the Human Resources lady for the whole episode is that she might be well-intentioned but also massively deluded? So when she said she was going to make the company 50% human-powered at the end, I think I'm more willing to read it as the episode itself not necessarily endorsing what she's doing? Which doesn't excuse the Doctor doing nothing, but It kinda gives the ending some more interpretive wiggle room for me.
I guess this ties in with Elisi's recent meta about how Thirteen is now very much going for winning the little battles rather than the whole war - she dropped in, she helped out in a small way, and now she's off again without attempting to change the course of the whole society. But it's taking some getting used to.
I'm starting to wonder if 13 is, in fact, depressed? This level of ineffectualness is really unusual. And she seems to be floundering in some other ways, still seems unsure of herself, still figuring things out, her asking Ryan and Yaz if she was too bombastic, being super careful in how much she leads people on. Maybe all this caution is a good thing; I think we can all identify the problems with the opposite approach. But the longer we go the more I'm feeling like she's stuck and can't figure out how to move forward at all. Twelve wasn't in a great place in Twice Upon a Time, and it's not like something magical has happened in between to fix her. Say what you will for the Doctor's massive internal conflicts in NuWho, but it did give him a lot of momentum. With those largely resolved, I kind of wonder if 13 is left just feeling empty?
It would be interesting, I think, to do a comparison of all the New Who Future-Human-Dystopia eps, to see what they are saying and how the Doctor reacts to them in their different regenerations. Elisi mentioned Bad Wolf, and this ep actually reminded ME a lot of The Long Game (poss because I've watched it recently) - which, as we know, the Doctor dramatically intervened in, thereby helping to *cause* the later Bad Wolf situation. But there's also things like New Earth / Gridlock and The Beast Below and other eps where we see humans, in space, in the future, embedded in their society and what they have made of their worlds, and how the Doctor reacts to the systemic injustices.
Mmmm, it's a good point. I think the thing that's immediately jumping out to me is that in The Beast Below, the Doctor was essentially going to do nothing before Amy saved him from himself. He had a band aid solution; he wasn't going to topple their social order. But Amy is nosy and bossy and essentially wonderful. Maybe we're seeing some of the downside to the Doctor keeping her companions a bit at arm's length--none of them are really able to challenge her.
ANYWAY, that was a lot of rambling, sorry! I feel like I haven't done this at you both in a long time. Thank you for sharing your thoughts which made me have thoughts! <3
It was been too long! YAY THOUGHTS! <3