promethia_tenk | The Inscrutable Amy Pond

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The Inscrutable Amy Pond

Hi guys *waves* Is anybody still around? I'll apologize here for my general Not Being Here for the last I've Lost Track of How Long. You'll have to excuse me because Life and also Things Far Too Boring to Talk About and, yes, you may feel free to hate me for abandoning you /guilt

But the internet is for dissecting television in obsessive detail, so on to the Doctor Who:

I've had another thought that I'd like to contribute to the ongoing efforts to fanwank season six into some sort of emotional continuity for the Pond family. This time it's about Amy and what I think has become the accepted wisdom about her behavior in the second half of the season (?): that she was repressing her feelings about what had happened with Melody because that is Amy and how she deals with adversity. This is the girl who had never told her fiance she loved him, after all.

I'll admit this has been more or less my accepted wisdom on the subject too since the season aired, I think because it made more sense than anything else I'd read. But it was never . . . satisfying? I felt possible but not deeply truthful, and I'm not sure it holds up as an explanation. If anything I think it's pretty surface: more of a what than a why.

Then awhile ago we got some lines from a cut scene from TIA/DotM in which Amy (presumably looking for some guidance) asks River how you deal with the heartbreak of timey-wimeyness, and River tells her to squash it down.

OH, THAT WE COULD HAVE HAD THAT SCENE!

Somehow it felt like a huge missing piece (beyond the fact that I love all Amy and River scenes), and it was only recently that I decided why.

Actually, I think Amy is crap at suppressing emotions. Just utter crap. Which is part of what makes her so lovely. But I think that so much of what she was feeling and expressing in season five was confusion and suspicion that people read "closed off." (So she couldn't tell Rory she loved him: because she didn't know. Not with a conscious conviction, anyway, which she tells the Doctor in Amy's Choice. But she was genuinely that conflicted and she was broadcasting that sense of conflictedness on all channels.)

But Amy constantly has to grind everything to a halt to force the people around her (usually the Doctor) to address what she's feeling. That is the opposite of being good at suppressing emotions. And she's very active in this. She's not content to just express herself. If she knows what she wants, she demands that things happen.

So, this girl:

grief

Geeze, Amy, you can't bottle it up like that. It's not healthy.

A huge part of this episode is about Amy's inability to function with the Doctor's death. I don't hold this against her; I think it's utterly understandable that she's so wrung out and preoccupied. But this is pretty much Amy's defining trait for the whole episode. She's the one saying shut up it doesn't matter the Doctor is dead, while River and Rory attempt to get on with what needs doing. She's the one demanding to know how River can be ok with this. She's the one who repeatedly needs holding back (literally and figuratively) from rushing in to do something to stop it or fix it or maybe just to yell the universe back into submission again. After awhile she regains enough presence of mind to be useful again, but she keeps coming back to 'we need to do something, we need to do something.' Until finally she gets her opening . . . and ends up shooting her own daughter.

And Amy, pretty much from the moment she met her, has looked to River's lead for how to handle the situations they find themselves in together. Having stumbled into timey-wimey tragedy and managed, with her usual methods of confront and fight, only to make things even worse, it does make sense to me that she'd fall back on River's example as the only way to deal with the second half of the season, and that cut scene would have tied those two influences perfectly together.

And now that I've written that all out it feels thoroughly like one of those "duh" things, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone articulate it before and have even heard a number of people condemning Amy for reacting so much more strongly to the Doctor's death than she does to the theft of her child. But maybe she doesn't react to Melody's kidnapping the way we would expect (and the way, I think, that would be consistent with her character up to that point) because she reacted so strongly to the Doctor's death and learned a hard lesson from it.

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Hey! Welcome back to the land of the internets!

I am still quite cross about the way S6 turned out. I just feel like it didn't make sense on a lot of levels: too many questions were raised and not resolved, sloppy characterization, explanations that feel slapdash even for Doctor Who....I am sort of pretending most of the season never happened.

Thank you : ) It's nice to be back.

*conflicted* About half of me is right there with you, and the other half of me doesn't want to give up on it just yet and wants to like it and feels like . . . if I just find enough key pieces of the puzzle it will at least settle into something that doesn't drive me this nuts. But I'll admit a part of my general not being here is just feeling like I don't want to deal with this mess . . .

I guess I didn't really think about the possibility that next season might help tie things up. I dunno. I am staying optimistic because Amy and Rory are fabulous one way or another, and the prospect of a new companion is exciting.

I think that is a very real possibility, particularly as it's seeming that they are, in fact, going to continue to be The Official Companions for a good chunk of the season. Back when the season ended it more sounded to me like they would be making an occasional guest appearance? So I guess Moff still has big things to do with them. (Though that does make me apprehensive too. Given how Big Things worked out for them this season, part of me wants to yell LEAVE IT JUST LEAVE IT. STEP AWAY FROM THE PONDS.) But still: hope.

Also, I think at the end of season five everything looked like it was wrapped up nice and pretty with a happy ending and then when we came back for season six Moff just dug up all the buried issues and it was like PSYCH, YOU THOUGHT THINGS WERE RESOLVED BUT NOOOOO. So when I remind myself of that it makes me more willing to go along with the shiny happy ending season six is trying to sell us on? I don't think I have to be unhappy with the way everything ended up; I mostly JUST WANT EVERYBODY TO TALK ABOUT THEIR ~FEEEELINGS.

Am very excited about new companion, actually. I want a fresh start.

Yeah, those are all good points. Ahh, torn between new companion excitement and missing Amy and Rory already. I just want the show to come back! It feels like forever since we had a new episode.

That's because it has actually been forever *gimmie hands*

Nope still not over it. Like you said, Amy projects ALL OVER THE PLACE, and though I think it would be within reason for her to TRY to react like River, I don't think she's be able to completely repress having her baby taken away from her. Especially with that episode with the little kid RIGHT AFTER, there should have been some serious freaking out, I mean, really.

The more distance from series 6 I get the more I dislike it? I mean I was appreciative of the gratuitous River/Doctor but I don't like what they did with River's backstory or any of it, really. :S

I think also the one time Amy is really passive about things is when she is actually deeply conflicted? Once she knows what she wants there's precious little that can stop her, which leads me to think that she really doesn't know what she wants here.

But, yes, dear god, I had actually managed to forget about Night Terrors. That's just shoddy continuity, end of story. Yeach.

The more distance from series 6 I get the more I dislike it?
Hmmmm, I can see that. Myself I've been coming to like it more (and there are many things about it I do genuinely love), but it would be hard to get worse than my initial violent disliking of so much of it.

Ahhh, that scene...would have explained so much and made all those who bitch and snark easier to put in their places.

Amy has always needed others to validate/okay what she feels. Evveryone needs to remember too, that Amy may have been 'raised by loving parents' but that was AFTER she spent a rough childhood being invalidated by everyone for being...odd, out of place, orphaned - and not just by her parents.

Amy is loud and shiny and not a big demander of attention beyond the fact of "look I'm here!! what are you going to do about that?!" - but she's always been insecure, waiting...and the Doctor dying? Shook her world up. The one constant - the bane and driving reason behind her smiles and her dreams - dead at her feet. Honestly, even without that talk, I can see where she'd learn to wall herself up, off, and learn to trust the validation of those around her LESS. River and Rory are so steady and 'we have to move on' (a way of dealing with their own grief and shock and trying to find a way to honor the man who was RIGHT UPSTAIRS) - and then...she was a CLONE. So everything she was feeling...was it real? a dream? No one is fighting the only way SHE knows how. And then...she's not even REAL. Amy's behavior on RF threw me. It appalled me. Then...then I understood. Her 'real self' was trying to show what had happened to her with this shocking prejudice that wasn't AMY. But that told the Doctor who/what she was (because she WAS still Amy, just not the original version). He constructed a flesh-self to 'talk' with flesh!Amy, but it backfired and left him wide-open for an unintentional psychic attack.

Then...then she IS real and AWAKE (but who's too say that's even TRUE?) and then, the baby...she is gone. She is gone and the Doctor came but he didn't fix it and Rory came but HE couldn't fix it either. rory's human, he fought for her, she could relate better to his turmoil - he did his best because that is HIS BABY TOO - but the magick of the Doctor died that day (and now he's dead completely, but she can't let go yet). And then he gave a thoroughly human display and she finds out her daughter is the woman she had always turned to for stability and guidance because she was just as wild and magick as the Doctor...I don't know. That's a lot to throw at someone. Amy shut down. She neede a break. Then to get further screwed in the head, her best friend is ALSO her daughter. And her daughter just tried to kill her best friend (maybe not magick, ut still her best friend) and she never KNEW her as River, but she grew up with Mels and this is the final straw.

Then River/Mels redeems herself.

I don't know. I think Amy was consistently Amy through S6. She handled things a sight better than I could - though rug after rug was yanked out underneath her. For such a strong spirit, she's a fragile soul. Her and the Doctor have so much in common, so much that connects them. I saw Amy as a human mirror, a reflection of him all season long - and nothing she did threw me...except in Rebel Flesh because that instant hatred and anger? was NOT AMY. So when I found out she WAS a flesh avatar? I sighed in pain, because that? That explained a hell of a lot for me. From that point and on.

Sorry...blithering...

*HUGS*

PSSST - Welcome back!

I don't know. That's a lot to throw at someone. Amy shut down. She neede a break. Then to get further screwed in the head, her best friend is ALSO her daughter. And her daughter just tried to kill her best friend (maybe not magick, ut still her best friend) and she never KNEW her as River, but she grew up with Mels and this is the final straw.

Then River/Mels redeems herself.

I don't know.
All of this.

- One, there are no guidelines for dealing with stuff like this. And AGMGTW showed the extent (and the price) of the Doctor's ability to put things right. And then, as you say, comes Berlin, and everything is so interconnected that I'm not sure where Amy would start. It's not even a question of squashing it down as an inability to work out what to do.Melody is Mels is River and it's all the Doctor's fault and River forgives him (and he forgives her) and Amy has nowhere to direct any emotions.

- Two, this is Moffat and everything is a metaphor. So we get The Girl Who Waited and TONS of stories about parents and children and their dynamics. (I have meta...)

It's not even a question of squashing it down as an inability to work out what to do.
That may be the key, I think. As I said above to bendingwind: the only time Amy really gets passive is when she doesn't know what she wants. It's not even that not knowing what to do (in a practical sense) is an impediment to her, because if she knows the result she wants, she will find a way to make it happen. With MAGICAL SHOUTING, if need be. When she doesn't know what she wants, though? She flounders hard and shuts down.

When she doesn't know what she wants, though? She flounders hard and shuts down.
*nods* Well she does know what she wants: She wants her baby back. But everything is hopelessly convoluted, and her baby is all grown up and happy with how her life turned out... (And we're back in Persephone territory, with River practically stealing herself out of Amy' arms.) All that's left to her is revenge (and that she gets!).

You say many, many true things. I think my issue is . . . things can make sense without actually clicking? And precious little about Amy this season has clicked for me until now.

Amy is loud and shiny and not a big demander of attention beyond the fact of "look I'm here!! what are you going to do about that?!"
LOL! Ok, that I have to disagree with. She's so much work that the Doctor and Rory take turns for who has to deal with her next *pets them all*

River and Rory are so steady and 'we have to move on' (a way of dealing with their own grief and shock and trying to find a way to honor the man who was RIGHT UPSTAIRS)
Mmmm, that's a good point. I think the Doctor will . . . tussle with her in a way that they won't? He'll at least give her some friction to work off of . . . and the innuendo there was unintended, but I think I'm gonna leave it in.

Her and the Doctor have so much in common, so much that connects them. I saw Amy as a human mirror, a reflection of him all season long - and nothing she did threw me...
I agree with you on that--they are very much alike and do function as mirrors quite a lot of the time. But, I also think that a key difference between them is that the Doctor does bottle (negative) things up far more. Keeping things that are bothering him to himself is his MO most of the time. But not Amy. Amy almost always needs to talk about things. Usually RIGHT NOW. And if not JUST RIGHT NOW, then she'll need to talk about them RIGHT NOW soon enough and probably A LITTLE LATER too. Rory gets that way too ("You said she kissed you!" "Now?!!? You want to talk about this now?!?!?!'), and River even does it in her quieter way: if something's bothering her she'll keep going over and over it ('not my Doctor, not my Doctor, not my Doctor . . .'). Whereas I think the Doctor needing to talk about something RIGHT NOW is more the exception than the rule? Or certainly this Doctor.

Not that I'm saying that Amy not talking in this case is out of character, but for her not talking is the exception, and not that there aren't a shit-ton of reasons she should be acting uncharacteristically, but I feel like a lot of people are taking for granted that "that's just how Amy is: closed off" and I'm feeling like, actually, that's not how she is at all and if she is now then the reasons really do need to click.

nothing she did threw me...except in Rebel Flesh because that instant hatred and anger? was NOT AMY. So when I found out she WAS a flesh avatar? I sighed in pain, because that? That explained a hell of a lot for me. From that point and on.
I really like your explanation for Amy's attitude in the gangers episodes. I'd never been bothered by her there, but I've never taken the time to work through why. Thing is, Amy does have a deep suspicious streak, and once it's roused it's pretty vicious. The first time she met the Doctor she was brave and excited. The second time she met the Doctor she knocked him unconscious, chained him up, and rained suspicion on him. Amy's last encounter with plastic people replicas didn't exactly go well . . .

Also I think dopplegangers are scary in ways beyond your average big bitey monster. They're not overtly dangerous; they're uncanny. They strike deep at your sense that something is wrong that you can't explain. The way that a crack that isn't in your wall but in the whole universe is also wrong. But your idea that Amy's subconscious is trying to tell her about her own state just plays right into that--I love it.

*hugs* Good to be back : )

You're back! And you brought meta! I'm kind of in love with this idea. I know I managed to sort myself out a little about the Rory issues I had that season but I'm still very conflicted on a lot of stuff. I'm quite hopeful about the coming season but also very fragile and on edge about it as well. After so wholeheartedly adoring season 5 it was weird to be so weirded by season 6.

I am planning fic (again) to help me sort out several of my deeper issues with all this. That appears to be how I deal - that and reading your thoughts and going 'ahhhh, one small part of me just got better' :D

I had a feeling you'd want to hear about this one *grins* It's all so bothersome that I've mostly been avoiding thinking about all of it because I don't think I'm really going to feel resolved about it until we can get some new material? But still, little bits like this, when they come along, do help.

I'm quite hopeful about the coming season but also very fragile and on edge about it as well. After so wholeheartedly adoring season 5 it was weird to be so weirded by season 6.
Thiiiiiiissss. God, this.

I am planning fic (again) to help me sort out several of my deeper issues with all this.
\o/ I've been meaning to get back to your last fic for.ev.er because I want to say Many Things, but the internet, much like life, kept managing to pile up. I've still got almost half the weekend left, though, and I'm in a Who-ish mood, so I must set aside some time.

That appears to be how I deal - that and reading your thoughts and going 'ahhhh, one small part of me just got better' :D
Exactly what I was hoping for *mad squishes*

I think I need to sit myself down, watch everything again (ick, even that horrid pirate episode), take notes on everything that bothers me and force it into some sort of fic cohesion. I will bend it all to my will!

Either that, or I'll get lazy, not do any of that, follow your example and wait til season 7 for resolution. Then deal with all my issues in one big mega bundle after that, if necessary :D

But still, little bits like this, when they come along, do help.
They so do! I'm still very conflicted, not to mention confused, about where things are right now but every time I read a little something like this it puts one wee thing to bed.

I've still got almost half the weekend left, though, and I'm in a Who-ish mood, so I must set aside some time
That would be fun. I am jealous of your having weekend left, though. It's Monday here *sigh* *grump* etc

I've actually been doing a bit of a slow, lazy rewatch. But I've only just finished season five, so up to this point it's mostly been nostalgia and seeing things with (slightly) fresh eyes again and some updated understanding of what's going on. Have yet to delve into season six yet, though, and I haven't really watched season six at all since the Christmas special . . .

We shall see how it goes. Bending it to our will sounds good, though. Let's do that!

I'm encouraged by the fact that I want to try with it again, though, and that I'm having new thoughts about it, and that I'm starting to feel excited for the new season. For awhile there I was getting worried that, even if I came back and watched and enjoyed season seven, my fannishness may have suffered an irreparable blow?

Season 5 has just finished here on UK TV so I watched that and now I kind of feel like I need to gird myself for season 6 but somehow haven't yet been able to. I've watched The Impossible Astronaut several times for some reason but never managed to drag myself past that one.

Bending it to our will sounds good, though. Let's do that!
Yes, let's!!

It is good that you're feeling excited again. I was drained and just plain bewildered at the end of season 6 and kind of drifted away from it all. I've barely even watched the announcements around the next series but now I am starting to get that twitchy hurry-up-and-be-Who-time thing again, which is \o/ I'll know I haven't suffered an irreparable blow to fannishness if I manage to write fic out of sheer joy and/or terror again and not because of 'I do not understand this thing, let me fic it into submission' - my first Eleven-era fic was because of extreme terror about where things were heading at the end of The Pandorica Opens. What do you think your signs will be?

YAY YOU POSTED! :D

SOMETIMES IT DOES HAPPEN.

Wow I missed this somehow I need to pay more attention ; ;

Tumblr is very distracting, I'll give you that . . .

While remembering the Doctor back into existence was an amazing thing, and a triumph for Amy, here it works against her. Because if she can do that, if he can cheat death once, why not again? River helped her do it before, why can't she do it again? Why is this different? And it's not like River can give her a straight answer. It's just that River - and Rory - KNOW that sometimes you just have to accept bad things happen. But Amy fixed all the bad things that happened before, so why not again?

maybe she doesn't react to Melody's kidnapping the way we would expect (and the way, I think, that would be consistent with her character up to that point) because she reacted so strongly to the Doctor's death and learned a hard lesson from it

Oh God, that's so heartbreaking and I think you might be right. Oh Amy. ;__;

That is a very good point about Amy, and I know it jives very neatly with my feelings as a viewer that YOU FIXED EVERYTHING ONCE, WHY IS THIS SO DIFFERENT, HUH?!?!

Amy's so desperate to fix things that she ends up shooting a little girl. That's why I almost laughed when she said "I didn't mean to shoot you" because yes, you did, Amy, that was EXACTLY what you meant to do and just because you found out it was a little girl doesn't mean that you get to lie about it.

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The Inscrutable Amy Pond

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