I love the scifi horror of Dollhouse and the host of philosophical questions it brings up. I think most of the time it works better as meta than as entertainment, but oh, what meta! I just feel like Dollhouse started from such a more ambitious premise than anything else he's done.
Yes, i feel like Joss really pushed his boundaries with Dollhouse, there's been darkness in his work before, but Dollhouse was just something else. Where so much of his other stuff was good/evil, i love the complexity of Dollhouse because the true puppeteers are so...invisible. All the power and control issues, and especially all the stuff about the nature of identity and what the soul is, what happens when you empty a person out, what is left behind,...wow. And the Attic...there's pages and pages of meta that needs to be written on that, i'm sure I've only watched it once and didn't have a meta head on at the time, but maybe i have to go back and rewatch and do some meta, lol!
Would you mind elaborating a bit? Because I confess I'm a bit bemused over the internet's rabid enthusiasm over Firefly and often wonder what I'm missing. Not that I feel like Firefly couldn't have developed into something amazing, but I wonder where all the certainty comes from. I do feel I need to watch it again sometime because it's been quite awhile and I do have a better understanding of Whedon now.
Sure :) For starters, Firefly was of a much broader scope than anything Joss had done before. Like we've said, the worldbuilding was wonderful and i think that the quality of it in the eps that was made show that Joss is actually very adept at writing something that operates on a much broader scale than Buffy and Angel. The possibilities for it were endless. They had a solar system - and beyond if they wished - at their disposal. Any sort of planet, and sort of spaceship. So for one, the potential for scope there and the way it was dealt with so well.
I think there was also scope there to explore more closely how the Alliance came about and to get more into that cultural meshing of China/America. It's a sound idea, with a whole back-history that we see some of, but there could have been a lot of mileage in that - again i thought it was well handled.
The characters - i do think that they are the most complex characters that Joss has written. While i am a fan of his other work, i can understand why some people feel that he writes in stereotypes. Firefly's team are much less clearcut - the potential for character development and character arcs was there. Again, i thought it was just beautifully handled in the series that was made - yet we were only really establishing the different members of the team in series 1, such fascinating characters and i feel that chance to grow them and their arcs would have mad for a fabulous series.
The team energy that there was with the crew of Serenity - sure Buffy and Angel's teams have that cohesiveness and warmth, but like we've said we both find more richness to Firefly'sd characters so it adds a little extra frisson. Plus they all come from such different backgrounds. And we never get their backstories properly.
Mostly, when i look at series one of Firefly compared to series one of everything else he's done, it stands out for me as the most interesting, complete, well put together, richest in ideas (though Dollhouse pips it at the post on ideas)and ...just...i am in love with the idea. I think there is a lot of pining in Firely fandom after the thing that never was, and maybe it wouldn't have been the best thing he's ever done. But for me it's the best idea he's and the tragedy of it is that it was a sad waste of a wonderful idea. Very sad. Maybe that's why fand mourn it so much and in our heads it becomes this vision of sci-fi aweomeness!!!
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Date: 29 Jan 2012 10:10 pm (UTC)Yes, i feel like Joss really pushed his boundaries with Dollhouse, there's been darkness in his work before, but Dollhouse was just something else. Where so much of his other stuff was good/evil, i love the complexity of Dollhouse because the true puppeteers are so...invisible. All the power and control issues, and especially all the stuff about the nature of identity and what the soul is, what happens when you empty a person out, what is left behind,...wow. And the Attic...there's pages and pages of meta that needs to be written on that, i'm sure I've only watched it once and didn't have a meta head on at the time, but maybe i have to go back and rewatch and do some meta, lol!
Would you mind elaborating a bit? Because I confess I'm a bit bemused over the internet's rabid enthusiasm over Firefly and often wonder what I'm missing. Not that I feel like Firefly couldn't have developed into something amazing, but I wonder where all the certainty comes from. I do feel I need to watch it again sometime because it's been quite awhile and I do have a better understanding of Whedon now.
Sure :)
For starters, Firefly was of a much broader scope than anything Joss had done before. Like we've said, the worldbuilding was wonderful and i think that the quality of it in the eps that was made show that Joss is actually very adept at writing something that operates on a much broader scale than Buffy and Angel. The possibilities for it were endless. They had a solar system - and beyond if they wished - at their disposal. Any sort of planet, and sort of spaceship. So for one, the potential for scope there and the way it was dealt with so well.
I think there was also scope there to explore more closely how the Alliance came about and to get more into that cultural meshing of China/America. It's a sound idea, with a whole back-history that we see some of, but there could have been a lot of mileage in that - again i thought it was well handled.
The characters - i do think that they are the most complex characters that Joss has written. While i am a fan of his other work, i can understand why some people feel that he writes in stereotypes. Firefly's team are much less clearcut - the potential for character development and character arcs was there. Again, i thought it was just beautifully handled in the series that was made - yet we were only really establishing the different members of the team in series 1, such fascinating characters and i feel that chance to grow them and their arcs would have mad for a fabulous series.
The team energy that there was with the crew of Serenity - sure Buffy and Angel's teams have that cohesiveness and warmth, but like we've said we both find more richness to Firefly'sd characters so it adds a little extra frisson. Plus they all come from such different backgrounds. And we never get their backstories properly.
Mostly, when i look at series one of Firefly compared to series one of everything else he's done, it stands out for me as the most interesting, complete, well put together, richest in ideas (though Dollhouse pips it at the post on ideas)and ...just...i am in love with the idea. I think there is a lot of pining in Firely fandom after the thing that never was, and maybe it wouldn't have been the best thing he's ever done. But for me it's the best idea he's and the tragedy of it is that it was a sad waste of a wonderful idea. Very sad. Maybe that's why fand mourn it so much and in our heads it becomes this vision of sci-fi aweomeness!!!