promethia_tenk | I quite like tv, if you didn't know . . .

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I quite like tv, if you didn't know . . .

It's been far too long since I've posted about anything fannish, but I have been watching some tv I'd like to chat about with anyone who's interested.

First up: had to share In Praise of Binge TV Consumption because, lo, they speak great truths ; )

Under the cut, some thoughts about the full runs of Downton Abbey and Avatar: The Last Airbender, both of which I've been meaning to watch forever. Minimal spoilers.

Downton Abbey: It's the bastard love child of Gosford Park and Gossip Girl; of course I was going to adore it. Next season they'll add a pithy voice-over by Kristin Bell and everything will be perfect. It did take me a bit of time to get over the fact that it wasn't entirely like Gosford Park, which is absolutely one of my favorite movies of all time, and to just embrace the melodrama, but round about the bit with Mary and the Turkish diplomat I realized, aahhh, it's gonna be like that then, and from there on things were brilliant in their own way. And how much do I love having a shippy show again? I feel like so many things I've watched recently I couldn't care less about who wants who. Which isn't entirely a bad thing, but there's nothing quite like having a show that you spend half your time watching it yelling at people to kiss. I also enjoy its measure of predictability: so many of the plot twists you can see coming from a mile away (and, truly, I am a gullible, un-fore-thinking, easily-lead thing when it comes to most viewing) and the rest you realize you should have seen coming if you'd just believed that this show was half as soapy as it continually proves itself to be. They even worked in some amnesia. Bless. It does have more than the usual share of British pacing problems: it's both too fast and too slow at the very same time. And if you've got less than ten hours in a season, what the heck are you doing returning to the same beats twenty thousand times? Still, there's not much I won't forgive with enough picky period detail and snappy dialogue and MAGGIE SMITH.

I do find it very strange to watch one of these Upstairs, Downstairs kinds of things and to care more about the aristocrats than the servants. How did that happen?

Anybody else actually enjoy season two more than season one? I'm sure season one was of better quality overall, but I just found the second season so much more engaging and I liked most everybody better, with the exception of Bates and Anna, who got tedious. What I've read of other people's reactions, though, it seems like most people thought it slumped.

I must also touch on Mary, who I expected to be a favorite from all I'd heard and, indeed, I was not disappointed. I did find her streak of petty vindictiveness in season one more than a little trying, but she is a fantastically drawn character and we both got past it, thankfully. She's like getting to watch a Jane Austen hero have to live the role of a Jane Austen heroine, which is very satisfying. Special kudos to the series of scenes in the second episode of season two where Mary goes through that subtle societal bullying of seeing/being shown that her own feelings must be less intense than other people's (other women's) and therefore, implicitly, less worthy of consideration. Also: ALL MY LOVE FOREVER for the treatment of the relationship between Mary and Lavinia. Mary's flat-out refusal to be anything but warm and supportive was something I hardly hoped the show would go for but I am fantastically grateful to actually see happen. And Mary/Matthew pretty much pushes all my shippy buttons, to an extent that I feel a bit pathetic and played by the writers, but frankly I'd rather just fall for it and enjoy the trip : )

Avatar: The Last Airbender: I feel like I've been in the middle of watching Avatar for about forever, but I finally polished it off the other month. I'll say that I'm glad I did watch it, enjoyed it quite well while I was doing so. I can see why people love it, but I really didn't get caught up in it as much as I'd hoped to. My main issue, I think, is that I never really fell in love with any of the characters. It's a show populated entirely by the characters I don't mind watching when my favorite character isn't around, which makes for pleasant enough viewing, but nothing to get too excited about. I do think the situation could have been helped by having a slightly different mix? The core of Aang and Katara and Sokka, in particular, got pretty dull after awhile and I found myself wishing for someone to spice them up a bit. Toph helped some, Zuko more so, but the only grouping I ever felt MORE! MORE! about was the maybe two episodes we got of serious Katara and Zuko interaction, which I presume they dropped in perfunctorily at the end purely to torment me about what might have been. And Aang and Katara . . . Sorry, Aang, your concerns that you are more like siblings are ENTIRELY FOUNDED. We'll just pretend that nonsense never happened, yes?

I also fear that I've had more than my fill of "the chosen one saves the world" stories lately. It's never been my favorite genre to begin with, and I'm worn out with it, no matter how well done this particular iteration was (and I do think it was very well done).

What I did absolutely looooovvve was the world-building: the culture and complexity and richness and everything about the elements and bending. I like that it was a world built around an idea of balance amongst many forces, rather than a dichotomy, and the thinking about the philosophy and natures of the different elements. And all the clever little everyday things they used bending for : ) Also loved getting a fantasy series in a non-european setting. And the six-legged, chimera animals. And the beautiful artwork. And the way each of the different nations had distinctive and well-developed cultures. And just the fact that the show continually surprised me by being more complex and more sophisticated and less pat than I was expecting.

All in all, I am really looking forward to seeing Avatar: The Legend of Korra. I would love to be able to return to that whole world, and I figure it's a second chance for them to assemble a collection of characters who could really draw me in.

Last but not least: Hellen Mirren wants to be Doctor Who. Make that happen, world.

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>>Last but not least: Hellen Mirren wants to be Doctor Who. Make that happen, world.

The only source for that is the Daily Star, which is notorious for making up quotes and attributing them to celebrities... but Mirren!Doctor would be awesome

I don't care how many lies it is--it must be so ; )

Along with Stephen Fry as the Master, yes, we can dream<3

I've never seen Avatar, but from what you say of it it sounds a little bit like Fullmetal Alchemist, which *everyone* needs to watch

She's already played Prospero in that film of The Tempest, so in my head she's halfway there already: Prospero is another old, iconic male wizard character, and The Tempest is alllllll up in the same themes and ideas as Moff Who <3

Have of course heard of Fullmetal Alchemist but don't know much about it. Gimme your pitch.

Well it starts kind of slow, but by about the 6th episode it's totally addictive and I ended up mainlining the entire series twice in a row. It's basically about two kids who set off on a mission to find the Philosopher's Stone because of reasons, and as they go along things just keep getting darker and weirder. The things you like about Avatar - world building and the balance of natural elements and complexity etc- are done well in FMA too, which is why I thought of it. And symbology and steampunk and philosophy!!!

Also: Riza Fucking Hawkeye, who is like Olivia Dunham in anime form.

I really ought to watch some more anime series beyond Evangellion, and world building! Yum <3

I do love me some Olivia. She even has the hair!

I don't think I've watched Evangelion... I've not watched much anime except for FMA and Samurai Champloo and Azumanga Daioh... but those three I am *mental* for. And the Studio Ghibli movies, but who hasn't seen those.

This really really must be so. I'm going to pretend it's not in any way made up or exaggerated, and just force the universe to make it so just with my will.

TV repeatedly tells me that the world works like that, so I don't see why it shouldn't work that way for us now ; )

With you 100% on Downton Abbey~ Though I rather liked Mary's streak of petty vindictiveness, it made her more real and relatable to me.

My feelings about A:tLA are complex and made more so by the fact that I watched it when it was first airing, as a young teen/preteen. When I went back to watch it in its entirety a few years ago, I did find many of the characters much harder to relate to than they had previously been, but I think that's the thing--they're very definitely young adult characters, and they feel like young adult characters, and that makes it sometimes difficult to directly connect to them, in the way it's difficult to be anything but a certain type of friend to a twelve-year-old.

Also, Katara/Aang, aaaugh. Yeah, definitely like siblings, and I felt like in the end they just gave the hero the girl because That's What Happens In Fairytales. I don't really care for Katara/Zuko either, mostly because... I don't like Katara much. :/ I realize this is an Unpopular Opinion but there have been very few female characters I have found more irritating than her. I think she could have had some interesting character development with Zuko that might have redeemed her a bit to me, though.

The world building, as you've said, is incredible. It's just so rich and elaborate and fantastic, and I find myself from time to time wishing I could go, I don't know, vacation there or something.

Okay yes. I think those are all of my relevant opinions.

This Has Been Zayne, Giving Unsolicited Opinions. Have A Nice Evening.

With you 100% on Downton Abbey~ Though I rather liked Mary's streak of petty vindictiveness, it made her more real and relatable to me.
I see how it makes a good deal of sense with her situation and character, and I did "enjoy" the juvenile realism of the relationships between all the sisters in the first season because I feel like it's something that tv and movies don't often get right. But in the end it's a very difficult character trait for me to deal with . . .

I did find many of the characters much harder to relate to than they had previously been, but I think that's the thing--they're very definitely young adult characters, and they feel like young adult characters, and that makes it sometimes difficult to directly connect to them, in the way it's difficult to be anything but a certain type of friend to a twelve-year-old.
That's a very good point, and something I often find happening with YA stuff for me (and I seem to recall a similar conversation between us about Harry Potter--I just feel removed from all the student characters). I wasn't quite sure if that was the deciding factor here, though, or if there was just something about these particular characters and it wouldn't have mattered if they were adults. It's nice to get someone else's confirmation on that.

I felt like in the end they just gave the hero the girl because That's What Happens In Fairytales.
Dear god, this! It wasn't a show I needed to see much romance in, to be honest, but Katara/Aang was something that really didn't need to happen.

I don't like Katara much. :/ I realize this is an Unpopular Opinion but there have been very few female characters I have found more irritating than her.
I was debating saying something about her along these lines, but decided to just skim over it. I wanted to like her a great deal more than I did. There's a lot there that I should have liked. And I was, in particular, impressed that they routinely surprised me with where they took her characterization: giving her an extra twist or layer that I wasn't expecting and that took her that step beyond a generic female lead character. I liked her combination of traditionally feminine/nurturing traits and more assertive, aggressive ones. I like that she had some pretty flagrant flaws and screw-ups that got dealt with very openly. I thought her relationship with Sokka had some really good sibling dynamics to it. And overall I liked watching her well enough.

But then there were just times when I found her So Insanely Annoying I had to stop watching for awhile.

*sigh* But usually I'm the one who adores the Female Character Who All the Fangirls Loathe and Attack from One End of Fandom to the Other (Gwen Cooper <3, Allison Cameron <3, Ammyyy <3), and lord knows I don't want to play into that nastiness, so . . .

I'm hoping Korra will give me a broader selection of female characters.

It's just so rich and elaborate and fantastic, and I find myself from time to time wishing I could go, I don't know, vacation there or something.
Yes! I love a good fantasy world so much--often more than I like the characters in it, as happened here. And this was a very good fantasy world.

This Has Been Zayne, Giving Unsolicited Opinions. Have A Nice Evening.
LOL! But I did solicit them! Right at the top of the post ; ) Thank you.

I wanted to like her a great deal more than I did. There's a lot there that I should have liked. And I was, in particular, impressed that they routinely surprised me with where they took her characterization: giving her an extra twist or layer that I wasn't expecting and that took her that step beyond a generic female lead character. I liked her combination of traditionally feminine/nurturing traits and more assertive, aggressive ones. I like that she had some pretty flagrant flaws and screw-ups that got dealt with very openly. I thought her relationship with Sokka had some really good sibling dynamics to it. And overall I liked watching her well enough.
That's almost exactly how I feel about here. I should have liked her, I really really wanted to like her, but in the end I just couldn't. To this day I am not entirely sure why, but as you've said, I think it's just because in some scenes she is so, SO annoying that it ruins all the rest for me.

*sigh* But usually I'm the one who adores the Female Character Who All the Fangirls Loathe and Attack from One End of Fandom to the Other (Gwen Cooper <3, Allison Cameron <3, Ammyyy <3), and lord knows I don't want to play into that nastiness, so . . .
I can see your point here, but mostly I'm willing to be open about not really caring for Katara because I can agree that she has a lot of positive traits and it's just a personal preference, and in any case, she is definitely not a Female Character Who All the Fangirls Loathe (in case, she's extremely extremely popular). So there's that~

I'm hoping Korra will give me a broader selection of female characters.
I have SO many mixed feelings, because omg DO WANT Avatar + steampunk awesome + lead heroine, but... what if it goes wrong? I will be so disappointed if it isn't everything I hoped. So I'm going into it with a timidly hopeful view, I guess.

LOL! But I did solicit them! Right at the top of the post ; )

Ooooh, I see that now (today, bringing you Zayne Does Not Read Anything Above A Cut). Well, I'm glad my opinions weren't so unsolicited then :p

I found Avatar:the Last Airbender to be one of the most satisfying shows I have ever watched. But then I loved pretty much all the characters, and adored Aang, in part because I saw some strong parallels with the Doctor. (The husband and I made Oncoming Storm cracks while watching.) Zuko's redemption arc hit a whole bunch of my character kinks - I once described his and Aang's friend ship as the Doctor and Master's enmity is emotional reverse. And I kinda want to be Iroh when I grow up.

Seriously eager for Korra and love that the show has never blinked at the hero reincarnating as both male and female.

Clearly I need to watching Downton Abbey.

I definitely see why so many people feel as you do and am a bit disappointed that I couldn't as well, but such is fiction!

adored Aang, in part because I saw some strong parallels with the Doctor. (The husband and I made Oncoming Storm cracks while watching.)
Very much so. Practically from the first episode I felt like I was watching a shrunken, bald, teenage, monk Doctor, lol! Right down to the lovely relationship with his sentient mode of transportation. And Aang was one of the more enjoyable parts of the show for me. I think what ended up making him less compelling than the Doctor, for me, was the combination of the Chosen One Saves the World story (which is not the Doctor's story, though he sometimes thinks it is) and the thing

bendingwind brings up about the difficulties of connecting with YA characters.

Zuko's redemption arc hit a whole bunch of my character kinks - I once described his and Aang's friend ship as the Doctor and Master's enmity is emotional reverse.
Not a bad comparison. And Zuko's was definitely one of the best-done parts of the show, I think. I've actually got a fair amount of antipathy to redemption arcs, but his drew me in.

And I kinda want to be Iroh when I grow up.
Iroh was the best. The end : )

Clearly I need to watching Downton Abbey.
Might not be to everyone's tastes and you have to be willing to not take it too seriously at times, but definitely worth a try.

Last but not least: Hellen Mirren wants to be Doctor Who. Make that happen, world.
Hmmm. I'd still go for Miranda Richardson. She needs to be young enough to RUN a lot...

ETA: Re. Avatar, then it's one of those shows people regularly flail over. Don't have the time to watch, but have wondered.

Edited 2012-01-15 09:29 (UTC)

Hmmm. I'd still go for Miranda Richardson. She needs to be young enough to RUN a lot...
Well, Helen Mirren does seem pretty spry for an old lady, and I think the actual amount of running that goes on on Moff Who is surprisingly little (running is filler--no time for it!). But then the shooting schedule and conditions sound pretty ghastly :-\

Oh god, I do love Miranda Richardson, though. She would be a wonderfully quirky Doctor, though in a very different way from MS.

Re. Avatar, then it's one of those shows people regularly flail over. Don't have the time to watch, but have wondered.
They do have good reason to. And it does have the twin virtues of being very short episodes (just over twenty minutes) and not too engrossing that you'd not be able to stop watching. Plus it is the rare, rare American show that fits that "family" niche that Doctor Who does: kid-friendly, but not dumbed down. And what

skipthedemon and I were saying above about Aang being Doctor-y is entirely true. He's actually very Eleventy-ish, if you could imagine Eleven with the situation and baggage of an actual teenage Chosen One, last-of-his-kind. Rather than a wanna-be teenage Chosen One, last-of-his-kind, lol.

At any rate, if you ever get your three wishes and suddenly have a lot more time on your hands, I think you'd at least have a very good time watching it

I also enjoy its measure of predictability: so many of the plot twists you can see coming from a mile away (and, truly, I am a gullible, un-fore-thinking, easily-lead thing when it comes to most viewing) and the rest you realize you should have seen coming if you'd just believed that this show was half as soapy as it continually proves itself to be. They even worked in some amnesia.
Oh, yes, this. It’s so lovely and comfortable. (And also pretty.)

And that Binge TV link – instant favourite. So. True.

People continually speak of predictability in stories as if it's a Bad Thing, but half the time, frankly, it's what lets me enjoy a show. I don't need to have my every expectation subverted--just tell it well!

And that Binge TV link – instant favourite. So. True.
It's so nice to feel understood <3

Tell it well, indeed! Every story has been told before in some capacity (or so the saying goes), and as long as it's entertaining...

Oh Downton Abbey. I try to reconcile myself to the soapiness and just enjoy the crack, but recently I find myself yelling at it more often than not. I loved the Christmas special though, and probably need to bring back my Downton icons. And Lady Mary! I liked her streak of petty vindictiveness, partly because she's so well-drawn and developed that it was only part of her and I loved how it was mixed with real compassion at other times. And partly because it was mostly directed towards her sister and I find the show's portrayal of those relationships really well-done. And it made me love EVEN MORE that she absolutely refused to indulge in the petty vindictiveness that could have been expected towards Lavinia in season 2. And Maggie Smith, who is, of course, perfection.

And you've articulated something about Avatar: The Last Airbender that I hadn't quite put my finger on before. I've seen the whole thing and I enjoy the show, but I've never been at all fannish about it. And I think that's because I enjoy the intricacy and scope of the world and the cultures and the bending more than I really love the individual characters. I enjoy most of the characters and I do love Katara most of the time, but I don't really think the characters escape being young adult characters in a young adult fantasy show about good triumphing over evil and the chosen hero. So I like it and enjoy it, but it mostly doesn't have character layers to pull back (except maybe for the Fire Nation kids, but I don't like Zuko as much as the rest of the audience and Azula has to get sad and lose, and even their layers are pretty textually explicit) and so it doesn't make me fannish. Like it does all those tropes really well, but it still does all those tropes?

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I quite like tv, if you didn't know . . .

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