More LKH reaction: let's not kill Moff just yet

[promethia_tenk]

I've worked out the thing about LKH that's been bothering me and that I was trying to get at in my fic:

It's still all about the little girl in the astronaut suit, and what we've seen in AGMGTW/LKH has to be the beginning of fixing that, not the end. Melody/River breaking her programming is a wonderful thing (and I do, actually, love how that was done), but that does nothing to address the fact that that programming should never have happened in the first place and that everything about how River/Melody's character is constructed is part of a deconstruction/analysis/response/resolution to who the Doctor is that we've barely even begun to tap into yet. Likewise, it does still matter that Amy and Rory don't have their baby back, and there's still the little matter of the Doctor apparently dying permanently at the hands of that astronaut by the lake (and we're told time is screwed up somehow). And all these things are connected in the form of the girl in the suit, which suggests to me that they all have to be resolved together.

Basically, Time Can Be Rewritten, and I think River is going to end up with dual lives/timelines, in the same way that Amy grew up without and with parents and that Rory was a Roman for 2000 years in a universe that never happened but can still remember it.

[ETA: idea from Elisi, that I now want very badly to be true: Moffat has talked in interviews about how the Doctor's reputation has become too big and that this season is in many ways about resolving that and returning him to the bumbling, low-profile space wanderer he once was. If the Doctor somehow succeeded in undoing his reputation throughout time, that would undo Kovarian and Co. and all their actions as well: stealing Melody, her brainwashing, the astronaut killing the Doctor . . .]


In other news: Silence will fall when the correct question is asked! Anyone familiar with the story of the Fisher King? Basically, the Fisher King is the legendary guardian of the Holy Grail, the cup of life (everybody lives!). But the Fisher King is wounded/ill in such a mythological/symbolic way that all his land is likewise stricken and dying (often this wound is a thigh wound, which is taken symbolically as a sexual wound, and the fertility of the land is tied to the fertility of its king). Some versions of the legend explicitly link the damage to the King and his land to a war (like, say, the Time War). A knight searching for the Grail must make his way to the Chapel Perilous and there ask a correct series of questions (which are a mystery) and which will heal the King and restore life to the land. I've been suspecting that Moff has been positioning the Doctor as the Fisher King since the Christmas special:

Comments

[juniperphoenix]

I thought of the Fisher King, too (although there's a silly part of me that really wants the question to be "Doctor who?")

And I think you're right on with the idea that River is going to end up with dual timelines. We're not anywhere close to the end of this story yet.

[ladymercury-10.livejournal.com]

Hmm, interesting theories! I'm really starting to agree with the idea that time is really messed up right now, and that's why so many odd things are happening.

The Fisher King is an interesting theory, too! The only thing I had heard in reference to the "question" was people seeing it as being vaguely similar to the "Life, the universe, and everything" question in the Hitchhiker's Guide.

[cinderbella333.livejournal.com]

Interesting. And I'm glad to see that you like some of the resolution we've seen on screen of River's programing and that you hold out hope for future developments.

It's a little bit funny. After AGMGTW, I wasn't thrilled but I was quickly able to deal with the reveals because of my hope for future developments and intellectually working through it with fandom/fanfic, and you had to walk away from it for a little while in order to come back. To some extent, I think we might be switching spots now with LKH. You seem to be in fandom writing fic/talking about the possibilities and meta and working through it. And I just want to walk away from it. Hopefully, like you returned to it with a new understanding/appreciation, the same will occur with me.

Your meta as always is very well-thought out and is compelling, Promethia. And I agree with you, I believe that River will have multiple possible timelines, like Amy and Rory. And I believe the Doctor will too. I've rather thought this since The Impossible Astronaut for several different reasons (along with many other people too, I know). However, for the first time, I have to say, I'm really not interested in what Moffat has to say about River Song. No matter how many timelines. Because of the one he has presented. And how many times can a person die without dying and how many times can a person live without living before all the losses and decisions and events don't matter? There has to be teeth and claws. Yes, there are interesting elements to it from the POV of choice and destiny and infinite possibility. However, that's something for a movie, two hours out of my life. That's not something for all the characters in a TV show, where we devote all these hours to trying to make sense of where these characters are coming from. And then the amount of time fandom has devoted to trying to figure out River Song and who she is and what that means. We didn't want a multiple choice answer. Moffat might be having fun with that, but it seems to me that he wants to have his cake and his cookies and his chocolates and his donuts and... fishfingers AND custard. That might sound like a great idea when you're hungry (or high), but it only really leads to a belly-ache. That's why I do not hold out great hope for added timelines. More does not always make better.

Still, perhaps your meta will be true and Matt and Alex's performance of it will be alluring enough to change my mind. I look forward to reading your interpretations and opinions of the upcoming episodes and developments. Maybe it'll help me reflect on them differently. After all, sometimes I need that, I need to hear your meta (or Owlsie's or Cassiopeia's or Elisi's etc...) and then I need to think on it and then think on it some more and then maybe start to distance myself even while approaching the material again. I value your point of view on this kind of thing highly.

[owlboy]

I hope you're right. It's Moffat, after all.... He can't leave a family permanently broken, right?

The episode is copping some flak for not really addressing Melody's kidnapping properly, and I hate to agree with the angry people...

And River's timeline totally isn't complicated enough already. We need TWO of them!

I like the parallels to the Fisher King...<3

[aareavis.livejournal.com]

I've been itching to discuss some meta! You all make me want to switch majors (from Math to English).

Anyways, the only thing I've got is the swastika. It's a sun symbol and represents everything that goes with that: life, fertility, regeneration (!!!), good luck, etc...

And, this may or may not be related to the post, but why is Doctor Who obsessed with red and blue nowadays. Red/blue bowties, red/blue plaid shirts, little Amelia's blue coat over red nightgown and boots, etc...

It seemed to be on overdrive this week. The Doctor starts out with a blue tie and ends with a red tie. Mels parks her stolen RED car next to the stolen BLUE TARDIS. :P When The Doctor first shows up in his tails, he is situated perfectly between the TARDIS (which was the sun at one point) and the big, red swastika (sun symbol) on the wall.

Sorry for the verbal diarrhea...

[rothas-writing.livejournal.com]

Ooooooh. That Arthurian idea is actually VERY clever.

[sea_thoughts]

Silence will fall when the correct question is asked! Anyone familiar with the story of the Fisher King?

YES AND I MAY HAVE FLAILED JUST A LITTLE BIT WHEN AMY-BOT SAID THOSE THINGS.

[alt_universe_me.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow. See, I look at an episode and think 'ooh, shiny!'. Then I come on lj and read all your amazing meta! Thank goodness for my flist :)

I'd never heard of the Fisher King, and I used to be really majorly into Arthurian legend. I wonder how I missed out on that?