Point of clarification: I'm not annoyed with *Buffy*, and actually I think she usually has to take the attitudes and positions she does, given her situation. I'm annoyed with the show for not challenging that more substantially. Oh I understood that already (we share a brain, remember? *g*) - and also much yes-ness to your RTD glaring. I think the problems were somewhat similar, in that if you have a hero who is *good* it's a bit limited how far you can pull them into the dark. Angel (and Jack, obviously) are far more flexible - Angel especially, since he is a demon. Love this exchange:
ANGEL: Give me the hell on Earth speech, Lindsey. I know how bad things are, how much sway the demons hold. I happen to be the greatest mass murderer you've ever met. LINDSEY: Never given you props for that, have I?
Which ties in with what you said... elsewhere about Team Angel's attitude in S5 and which has actually helped me figure something out re. Angel and his story etc. It's often said that Angel's story is about redemption, but I don't think it is. Anna's post on Damage is one of my favourite metas EVER EVER, and this part especially is spot-on:
'Blood on your hands, or blood in your heart? Motivated by guilt, or motivated by love?
Because what Spike learnt, what Spike expressed in Touched, and lived out in Chosen, is that you can't make up for your past. You can be sorry, but it isn't a solution. But you can love, for naught but love's sake, and that is a motivation for action. That is what makes you other than dead.'
Which leads me back to Spike and Buffy, and the way I love how so much of their story is about what they *do*, not what they *say*. S7 Buffy isn't exactly an oversharer, and she has never been very good with words. But she helps Spike. Gets him out of the basement, even into her house. Protects him, trusts him. USEFUL things, rather than pretty words. (Also see this little post.)
I wandered off point... Re Angel then he goes off the rails a fair bit. If anything then the show is about him accepting that he *is* Angelus, and use that. I am often torn as to which show I prefer, and whilst I guess BtVS is better quality, and I love, love, love the Spike/Buffy story, then *generally* I think AtS speaks more to me. The overall theme of Buffy is 'Growing up'. Angel's is 'Family', which is much bigger and more complex.
Re: VIDS! (You asked for it...)
Oh I understood that already (we share a brain, remember? *g*) - and also much yes-ness to your RTD glaring. I think the problems were somewhat similar, in that if you have a hero who is *good* it's a bit limited how far you can pull them into the dark. Angel (and Jack, obviously) are far more flexible - Angel especially, since he is a demon. Love this exchange:
ANGEL: Give me the hell on Earth speech, Lindsey. I know how bad things are, how much sway the demons hold. I happen to be the greatest mass murderer you've ever met.
LINDSEY: Never given you props for that, have I?
Which ties in with what you said... elsewhere about Team Angel's attitude in S5 and which has actually helped me figure something out re. Angel and his story etc. It's often said that Angel's story is about redemption, but I don't think it is. Anna's post on Damage is one of my favourite metas EVER EVER, and this part especially is spot-on:
'Blood on your hands, or blood in your heart? Motivated by guilt, or motivated by love?
Because what Spike learnt, what Spike expressed in Touched, and lived out in Chosen, is that you can't make up for your past. You can be sorry, but it isn't a solution. But you can love, for naught but love's sake, and that is a motivation for action. That is what makes you other than dead.'
Which leads me back to Spike and Buffy, and the way I love how so much of their story is about what they *do*, not what they *say*. S7 Buffy isn't exactly an oversharer, and she has never been very good with words. But she helps Spike. Gets him out of the basement, even into her house. Protects him, trusts him. USEFUL things, rather than pretty words. (Also see this little post.)
I wandered off point... Re Angel then he goes off the rails a fair bit. If anything then the show is about him accepting that he *is* Angelus, and use that. I am often torn as to which show I prefer, and whilst I guess BtVS is better quality, and I love, love, love the Spike/Buffy story, then *generally* I think AtS speaks more to me. The overall theme of Buffy is 'Growing up'. Angel's is 'Family', which is much bigger and more complex.